AB40k Maintainers

Couple of question that need answers:

1) Can a model that has Scything Talons as Wargear, "Replace any Devourer with Scything Talons" and access to Bio-artefacts get one "Replace any Scything Talons" Bio-artefact or two? 

2) When a unit has some models with a heavy weapon or that gain a bonus Attack from two Melee weapons should they be on separate lines?

Homer

Homer_S wrote:Couple of question that need answers:

1) Can a model that has Scything Talons as Wargear, "Replace any Devourer with Scything Talons" and access to Bio-artefacts get one "Replace any Scything Talons" Bio-artefact or two? 

2) When a unit has some models with a heavy weapon or that gain a bonus Attack from two Melee weapons should they be on separate lines?

Homer

so for #1, I would say that the replacement of each individually woudl be allowed unless the rule stated that the exchange was for the pair.

#2, I think in the past if the stat line woudl remain the same you woudl indicate it as a single line with the weapons listed out (9x devourer, 1x heavy devourer) or somethign like that. Items however that woudl impact teh stat line for a single model in teh unit(ie addiitonal attacks, etc...) would be added as a new model under the unit as a whole.

So, in the new codex all Tyranid CCWs come in pairs (except for the Lash Whip and Bonesword, it's a two-fer). A model must have two pairs to gain an extra attack. Some models have 2 pairs of Scything Talons base. Others start with one pair and a Devourer, that can be swapped for a second pair of Scything Talon. I'm thinking the only time someone will want to exchange both sets of Scything Talons would be to take Bio-artefacts. This is analogous to the current discussion (the polite term) on Space Marine sergeants. I'm trying to short circuit that by asking the community.

Homer

Homer_S wrote:So, in the new codex all Tyranid CCWs come in pairs (except for the Lash Whip and Bonesword, it's a two-fer). A model must have two pairs to gain an extra attack. Some models have 2 pairs of Scything Talons base. Others start with one pair and a Devourer, that can be swapped for a second pair of Scything Talon. I'm thinking the only time someone will want to exchange both sets of Scything Talons would be to take Bio-artefacts. This is analogous to the current discussion (the polite term) on Space Marine sergeants. I'm trying to short circuit that by asking the community.

Homer

I would say its a replace a 'pair' then if they are given as pairs.

For what it is worth, the force org tool for tyranid so allows the prime to get two of the bio artifacts that require a talons substitution. When you do this, it greys out the option to take a second pair of talon...so that implies GW supports a double swap to unlock a second artifact choice.

On a related note, the tool also allows multiple artifacts per creature as long as they do not require more swaps than the creature has available...so the tyrant and prime can take five of the six artifacts on one model (the sixth would require a third pair of talons to exchange).

Basically they retain the position that they took in the SM codex's orcs req tool that a double swap is legal for unlocking upgrades from the various lists that require a specific weapon exchange (that whole Sgts thing...).

For #2 it may come down to how confusing it would be for people to get by with one line versus two. It would certainlybe less congestive to keep one line and maybe display a split attack number like(3/4) for the unit with the understanding that the 4 would only apply for those with the requisit two pairs of cc weapons. The mult line path itself could be confusing I would think to implement mainly from a labeling perspective...take a unit of warriors where one has a Heavy Weapon, one has the basic load out, and a third has the stat modifying pair of CC weapons. How would you lable the us modified stat line versus the modified one as two different load outs share the basic line.

So my personal preference would be a single stat line....mainly to keep the final list simpler...but I recognize that this could also be confusing.

gungagreg wrote:For what it is worth, the force org tool for tyranid so allows the prime to get two of the bio artifacts that require a talons substitution. When you do this, it greys out the option to take a second pair of talon...so that implies GW supports a double swap to unlock a second artifact choice.

On a related note, the tool also allows multiple artifacts per creature as long as they do not require more swaps than the creature has available...so the tyrant and prime can take five of the six artifacts on one model (the sixth would require a third pair of talons to exchange).

Basically they retain the position that they took in the SM codex's orcs req tool that a double swap is legal for unlocking upgrades from the various lists that require a specific weapon exchange (that whole Sgts thing...).

Thanks for the Bio-artefacts information. That is how I'm implementing it.

The Hive Tyrant starts with two Scything Talons and has access to Monstrous Bio-cannons, Melee Bio-weapons, Biomorphs, Thorax Biomorphs and Tyranid Bio-artefacts. How exactly does it get access to take a second pair? or why would it need to since it already has them.

The real choice I'm describing would be for the Tyranid Prime. It has 1 pair of Scything Talons and a Devourer. Can the Tyranid Prime swap the Devourer for a second pair of Scything Talons (via Basic Bio-weapons) and then for two Bio-artefacts by swapping both pairs?

Homer

Homer_S wrote:Thanks for the Bio-artefacts information. That is how I'm implementing it.

The Hive Tyrant starts with two Scything Talons and has access to Monstrous Bio-cannons, Melee Bio-weapons, Biomorphs, Thorax Biomorphs and Tyranid Bio-artefacts. How exactly does it get access to take a second pair? or why would it need to since it already has them.

The real choice I'm describing would be for the Tyranid Prime. It has 1 pair of Scything Talons and a Devourer. Can the Tyranid Prime swap the Devourer for a second pair of Scything Talons (via Basic Bio-weapons) and then for two Bio-artefacts by swapping both pairs?

Homer

Re: Hive Tyrant: It starts with not one, but two pairs of scything talons (i.e., four talons). That gives it the ability to swap out for two artefacts (or two of any of the other items or any combination of two) if it desires.

Re: the Prime: It has access to Basic Bio-weapons which allows it to replace the devourer with one pair of Scything talons for free - that (per the Force Org tool) allows it access to two upgrades from the Bio-Artefacts that require the swap. For example, it can get both the Maw Claws AND the Miasma cannon at the cost of both pairs of scything talons.

Question: The Prime and the Warriors/Shrikes can get two sets of Scything Talons. I have setup the Prime to be able to swap the second for an artefact. Do I have to let them all get say two sets of Rending Claws, even though you gain no additional benefit while spending more points?

Homer

I can see from a 'Rules as Written' standpoint, that yes, you would be able to swap both sets of talons for any of the melee bio-weapons. While two sets of Rending claws would be a waste of points, I can see some situations where you might would want Boneswords/Whip+Sword and a pair of rending claws, when you might want to opt to use the claws (to hope for rends when you couldn't otherwise wound).

I don't think anyone would ever (if they know what they're doing) opt to want to have 2 sets of rending claws, but I think making the option to do any and everything capable with both sets of scything talons should be there.