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5th Edition Rumours (it is going to blow goats)

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 4:49 pm
by Wraithlord
Short summary of 5th ed rumours
--Non-fast up to 12";
--Fast up to 18"
--Ground vehicles that move at full speed and cross dangerous terrain roll 2D6 for their test. If one "one" is rolled, they're immobilized. If two "ones" are rolled, the vehicle flips over and is considered destroyed.
--No shooting of defensive weapons if you move full speed.
- Str 4 for defensive weapons
--While Stationary:Fire everything if you don't move (except Ordnance, it's got special rules, and I don't use Ordnance)
---Non-fast vehicles: Fire 1 main and defensive if you move =< 6 fire defensive weapons if you move > 6
---Fast (move up to 18"): Fire everything if you move =< 6 Fire 1 main and defensive if you move 6 - 12; >12" only fire defensive
---Walkers moving only fire 1 weapon
--If your transport is destroyed, passengers now take a Str 4 hit, saves allowed (instead of a 4+). If an open-topped transport is destroyed, it's a Str 3 hit because its easier to disembark.
--No re-roll of wounding against transported infantry no matter how far you moved.
--A unit with Scouts that is inside a vehicle confers that ability to the vehicle.
-Damage Chart
-- Vehicle damage chart: It's about halfway between the glancing and penetrating charts of today (1-2 is the can't shoot/move thing, 3 is weapon, 4 is immobilized, 5-6 destroyed/annihilated). Glance is a -2. If --you are glanced, your vehicle can at most be immobilized. Vehicles are a bit more survivable because of the way damage stacks. If you get two immobilized results, it becomes weapon destroyed. You --aren't destroyed by "cumulative results" until you've been immobilized and all your weapons are gone (and then you get one more).
-Cover Save
--Smoke launchers are a 5+ cover save.
--vehicles can now get up to a 3+ cover save, depending on what they're hiding behind.

-Wound allocation before armor saves: Didn't see it. It may or may not be. I was looking at other sections and really didn't expect to see any changes here, so I glanced over that part and didn't look too closely.
-LOS: I'm pretty sure that it's units that block LOS, so you shouldn't worry about spending 45 minutes drawing LOS from each individual trooper to each individual target. You draw LOS from the eyes of the model. Area terrain gives cover saves. There's an entire chapter on ruined buildings and how they affect line of sight (like a mini Cities of Death). I honestly don't remember if 6" of terrain blocks sight or not.You can shoot over other squads if you can see over them because of elevation, etc. You can always shoot at vehicles or monstrous creatures over other squads.
-Blast weapons: Blast weapons don't roll to hit, they just scatter. However, they now operate like template weapons in that any model touched by the blast is hit. None of this "roll 4+ for partial" stuff. A unit firing multiple blast weapons (a SM Dev squad being the example) fires like a multiple barrage unit would in 4th edition. Scatter once, then lay the blasts off of the original template. These two things might make up for the lack of a to-hit roll. Oh, and you don't need to center the hole over someone when you place it before determining scatter.
-After shooting and wounding, you can choose to become pinned. You get a +1 to cover save (or a 6+ if you're in the open). It's the "get down!" rule.
-Gets Hot! is back to the 3rd ed version. So that Ork character doesn't have to worry about rolling 3s on his plasma gun.
-Flamers: You now determine wounds for all template weapons firing from a squad before you take saves or remove casualties!!!
-Yes, allocate wounds before making saves. This will probably encourage larger squads (goodbye, 6 man las-plas).

------------Close Combat-------------------------
-Plasma/frag: I don't know about their armor penetration against vehicles. I think they're the same now, but don't quote me on that.
-Assaulting in cover: If you assault someone in cover, and you don't have grenades, you now become initiative 1 (instead of them becoming init 10). This works a lot better when more than two units are in combat.
-If you are charged while broken, you make another fall back move immediately. If you don't get away (i.e., they can still reach you), you're destroyed. If you do get away, umm, you get away.
-There is not a new HTH chart. Sadly, the Avatar still only hits Fire Warriors on a 3+.
-Preferred Enemy now allows you to reroll all misses, instead of hitting on a 3+.
-Force weapons now just inflict instant death instead of that weird pseudo-instant death.
-Running can be done w/in 12" of an enemy. You just can't charge if you run.
-Bikes all now get a 3+ cover save for their turbo-boost. So the psy-cannon thing is out the window.
Dark Eldar Ravager with 3 Dark Lances is now something you can take. You couldn't really before, because you "had" to move 6+ inches to get SMF, and that meant you could only fire one weapon. Now, with SMF just a 5+ cover save, and the Ravager able to fire all weapons if it moves 6" or less, we may actually see it shoot more often.
1-2 = Recon
3-4= Take and Hold
5-6 = Total Anihiliation
Recon = You role for d3+2 objectives and if you have troops within 3" and the other guy doesnt at the end of the game, you hold that objective. The one with the most objectives wins.
Take and Hold = Is similar, except each player choses an objective within their deployment zone, not in impassible terrain, and not within 24" of the other objective.
Total Anihilation = Get 'Kill Points' for units destroyed or falling back. HQ=3pts. Fast, Heavy, Elite = 2pts Troops=1pt
-Victory Points
--only troops are scoring, except if falling back / it is a transport? / it has a specific rule saying it isn't scoring.
--VPs are used to decide draws. You need at least a 10% difference in VPs based on the points of the game to win (i.e. their example 1,500 points requres a 150 pints difference to register a win)
--Units destroyed are worth their points, half strength units worth half their points.
1-2 - Spearhead (table quarters) as usual, except that is seems that the person that won the initial roll deploys their entire force and then the other player deploys theirs. The person who 'won' the initial roll then goes first.
3-4 - Pitched Battle (long table edges) Normal deployment (well 12" from the middle of the table anyway, can't remember the rules from current ed.) Again, winner deploys first, then the other player then the 'winner' goes first.
5-6 Dawn of War (Table Halves) Same as above, except you place 1HQ and 2 Troops (including infiltrators). Everyone else is placed in reserve and comes on in turn 1; and the first turn is night fighting.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:36 pm
by Rayne
Oh goddess.... If there was ever a reason for me to switch to WHFB right now, those rumors were it...

Strength 4 defensive weapons now? So no move-shoot with heavy bolters. Nice. And Immolators can no longer spray-n-prey with the heavy flamers. Lovely.

Space Marine Scouts in a Rhino get a free 12" scout move now? Eeesh... Too bad that Scouts are elites for my DA.

Improved smoke launchers! Yay! Except you still cant fire anything if you use them... Perhaps for rhino rushes? And Vehicle armor saves! Woohoo! I still have the feeling that Land Raiders are STILL the biggest waste of points ever. Especially since they cant move and shoot with anything except a pintle-mount now, or the Hurricane bolters on a Crusader.

Preferred Enemy now acts like a Priest.... So putting one in with Celestians (reroll all missed hits on charge, and always hits on 3+) is kinda pointless. Also, does this mean that Priests/Chaplains Litanies of Hate now = Preferred Enemy?

Sweet Goddess on Earth... Force Weapons now cause Instant Death. <3 Do they still count as power weapons too?

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:39 pm
by Wraithlord
Fortunately since I posted this more than a few folks, including Brimstone from Warseer, have come out and either said that the rules they have seen are nowhere near what these are or have called them outright bogus. Popular opinion is that these may have been floated in order to possibly nab some of those responsible for the leaks of the chaos and ork codices, which is backed up by the fact that there are apparently 2 different pdf's for the rules floating around right now.

Time will tell but I hope to god this is true. These rumours are so much like a full backwards step to 3rd ed it isn't funny with MASSIVE emphasis put on assaulty, troop heavy lists to the degree that mobile, tank based armies or stand and shoot armies are going to have to fight to pull off a draw. Let's keep our fingers crossed.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:21 am
by Grimnar42
Rumours and such are interesting but no point really getting upset about anything till u get the full ruleset to see how things work. I have to say but that I wasnt all that impressed with the new chaos codex they damn well better bring back the cult armies.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:05 am
by Vol-nz
Additional points of interest.

-No additional close combat attack if you have a power fist + bolt pistol. (you need a pair like lightning claws, a thunderhammer will count as a part of the pair)

-Units firing from >2" in cover infer a cover save on their target.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:39 am
by shaggai
I have a feeling that this may be the design studio's idea of large scale playtesting. Throw the changes their playing around with on the net and see what happens...then again, maybe someone is looking through the trash and postng the results.

And Rayne, don't worry about the immolator at the moment in light of the possibility of these 5E changes. The Immolator gets to fire the Heavy flamer on a maximum move via its own special rules - not from the nominal rules of the game. (Although the HB verison would get the shaft.)

And in light of these rumors of cover saves for everyone and their brother, the idea of spending points for Blessed Ammo actually may sound like a good deal, especially if it would be extended to any weapon on the vehicle and not just bolter-shell weaponry.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:15 am
by Lemmings
Much of it sounds to be rubbish, as alot of those things scrap the current system completely and would need to result in extensive FAQs, even for the new Ork's dex.

I'm going to wait and see before I get upset, though I did say that about High Elves and striking first...

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:07 pm
by Chunky_Baby
I was so pissed when I heard these rumours.

After BL closed down the RPG side of things, this was just the last straw for me.

I am very unhappy at GW right now. Very.