AB40k Maintainers

Read ths post and thought it is a great post to share with you guys.





Hello all, the thread about the 'dodgiest opponents' got me thinking about certain gaming conventions and gamers expectations when it comes to courtesy and conventions.

By 'conventions' here I mean--unwritten rules of behavior and decorum while playing the game. Realizing that different gaming groups will have different conventions or traditions about how to handle certain situations I thought it might be useful to get some input and see how much of a concensus we as a community have.

So, I'll start with dice rolling....

--My preference for To Hit and To Wound rolls etc.. is to roll the dice and pick out the misses and put them aside, count up the successful rolls and announce to my opponent--wait for verbal agreement (prompt if necessary) and then lather, rinse, repeat. This gives your opponent the opportunity to verify how many successess you have rolled and point out if you missed an errant die amongst the crowd (two sets of eyes and all that).

I strongly dislike the "fast rolling" that I've encountered here and there, where my opponent would roll the dice and then in essentially the same motion pick them all up while announcing the hits, wounds--without allowing me the opportunity to verify-or even see the rolls. Less of an annoyance is picking up the hits and leaving the misses--this doesn't allow verification of hits either.

--Another area that comes up often is the 'cocked die' issue. Some people play that if the die is even slightly cocked it needs to be rerolled, others play that as long as it is obvious what face is up let it stand-only rerolling the truly unreadable. I prefer not to reroll dice that have an obvious result that both players agree on--why reroll if the result is not in question? Obviously if the players can't decide or agree what the result is, then re-roll it. It annoys me a bit when an opponent automatically re-rolls that '1' he just rolled because it was slightly cocked.

--I expect my opponent to have a written army list with all items/upgrades listed and costed out. Showing up without a list and saying 'trust me in know my list by heart' just leaves alot open to abuse. My response? 'Great since you know it by heart--how about writing it down before we start?' I also expect my opponent to actually have the relevent army book for the game.

--I don't mind proxies at all, nor does an unpainted army bother me. Especially in a friendly game. But, I know that this is a big pet peeve of some gamers.

--Pre-measuring. In my opinion the only time you are allowed some freedom with measuring is during your remaining moves phase while moving your units, you may put out the tape to the max your unit is capable of moving to see where the unit may end up. I don't think you should have to declare how many inches your unit is moving and in what direction before pulling out the tape.

Please don't measure distances to my units or even other units in your army or to the terrain or your general/BSB etc. I think the only thing you should measure before the start of a game is the total table length and width, and your own deployment zone--please don't measure the distances to and between all the terrain. And don't measure when placing terrain other than the borders of your deployment zone.

--Scatter dice. After realizing that many players are rather incapable of accurately visualizing parallels (think how many people can't hang a level picture without a tool) I've started trying to get scatter dice to land as close as possible to the object being scattered. It can be very handy to lay out a couple of pencils and if necessary measure out the parallel to determine proper scatter direction.

--Picking up other players models. I for one try to avoid it without permission and always endeavor to pick the model up at the base. Some models are very fragile and will have wings etc that will easily pop off. And some models (not mine) are so well painted that noones grubby little fingers should be touching them.

--LOS issues. When moving your units such that you intend to be out of LOS of xyz enemy unit--agree with your opponent before finishing your movement that the unit is actually out (or in as the case may be).

--If you are late to a game, it is ok if you bring snacks.

--Open/closed lists. Really a personal preference thing--but it should be agreed upon before lists are created for a game, because it can change the composition of certain armies. I'm not going to argue the merits of one style vs. the next, just that it should be agreed upon before army lists are written.

--Please don't comment from the sidelines about a game in progress! If it is not your game, keep your mouth shut--unless you are specifically asked a question. Even then if you are asked a question about tactics or strategy by your buddy--decline to answer and tell him to play his own game--his opponent will appreciate it. (the exception is of course if a new player is being taught the ropes and the other player expects the new player to receive help from a mentor).

--If you have 'house rules' don't wait to spring them on someone in game--lay them out before the game, preferably before army list creation.

--Ask newer players how much help they want in game--some like to learn from their mistakes.

Sorry this got so long, I could probably go on but I'll just open the floor now and see if there is any interest out there.

Some added thoughts of my own here:

-- Movement/Assault/etc Measurement. I am a huge believer in the idea that the first model (at the very least) to be moved should have the measuring tape placed on the table beside it, not in the air above it. That way, there is no way you or your opponent can get more movement distance than you should. Lining it up by eye is nowhere near as accurate as actually placing the tape on the table, touching the model to be moved and can lead to you moving your models up to a couple inches too far in extreme cases. This usually happens when models are in the middle of the table and you simply cannot physically lean directly over them to eye it up right. I have also seen it happen where the first model is moved correctly but the models behind it are moved into a formation that they could not possibly have made if they only moved their set distance. I personally try to place the tape on the table for the first model to be moved any time I am moving something, just to ensure that I am not boning my opponent by moving my models farther than they should, and then I also attempt to keep the unit I am moving in the same formation they were just in as that is how the movement would work unless you deliberately made short moves on the front models in order to bunch the unit up. This is might even be my own largest pet peeve as far as this game is concerned.

The dice stuff seems to be the way most of us do things around here so no biggie there. However, I do have two points on this to add of my own as well:

1) Don't roll the dice across the entire table, going under every building in sight, in between the opponents models, etc. There is no need for that. Your chances of rolling a six are just as good if you simply drop them straight down or lightly roll them in a small area. Flinging them across the table is merely irritating (to me anyway lol)

2) Super large dice are fine if that is what you have. If you do however, roll them in a separate box lid or something. DO NOT roll them anywhere near my painstakingly assembled and painted models thank you very much. Haven't seen this one happen in a loooong time though.

--I expect my opponent to have a written army list with all items/upgrades listed and costed out. Showing up without a list and saying 'trust me in know my list by heart' just leaves alot open to abuse. My response? 'Great since you know it by heart--how about writing it down before we start?' I also expect my opponent to actually have the relevent army book for the game.

Couldn't agree more. That is actually one of the reasons I like armybuilder so much as it lists all the wargear a model has, the relevant costs, and the added benefits said gear confers. It is all there in the open. Hand written is fine as well but the ab lists are just easier to read I think

--I don't mind proxies at all, nor does an unpainted army bother me. Especially in a friendly game. But, I know that this is a big pet peeve of some gamers

Couldn't care less. Proxy that entire Guard list, models mean nothing to me, it is the game that I am interested in. Now, if my opponent was doing this all the time without ever making an attempt at GETTING the right models, then I may begin to dislike it. So long as my opponent has some of the models or is in the process of getting them over time, cool beans.

--Scatter dice. After realizing that many players are rather incapable of accurately visualizing parallels (think how many people can't hang a level picture without a tool) I've started trying to get scatter dice to land as close as possible to the object being scattered. It can be very handy to lay out a couple of pencils and if necessary measure out the parallel to determine proper scatter direction.

This is one I have to, sorry guys, agree with fully. I have seen the direction on the scatter die measured in a direction nowhere near what the arrow shows more than a few times (no names here). I am sure I probably do it from time to time as well, everyone does I am sure, but this topic is spot on. We should probably ALL roll the scatter die next to where the target is, simply to make it easier to line up that parallel. I really don't mean to offend anyone here but this one couldn't be more spot on.

--If you are late to a game, it is ok if you bring snacks

Lol, so true.

--Please don't comment from the sidelines about a game in progress! If it is not your game, keep your mouth shut--unless you are specifically asked a question. Even then if you are asked a question about tactics or strategy by your buddy--decline to answer and tell him to play his own game--his opponent will appreciate it. (the exception is of course if a new player is being taught the ropes and the other player expects the new player to receive help from a mentor).

Muahahaha, bet this one had Ivor squirming a bit (sorry Ivor, couldn't resist)

It is a good point though. You may be in the middle of a decent strat that your opponent may not have picked up on quite yet, only to have said friend blatantly point it out for him just as he is about to make the move that you were counting on. Being asked for ideas or thoughts is one thing, commenting on how the overall game is going, etc, that is cool and part of the social aspect of the game. But don't come over to the table and say 'wow, those rough riders are really going to slam into those Marines next turn eh?'. Once again, it is one of those things we all do from time to time but something we should try not to.

All in all I have to say I agree with most of the points here (not that I am saying we have huge problems with these things either). This is all stuff that should be pretty much de facto where ever you game at.

-- Movement/Assault/etc Measurement.

A) My comment on this one generally is that where possible, lay the tape down. But sometimes it's just not possible, without hitting one of your models, or one of your opponents, or the terrain.

If you can - great, if not - "float" it above the model you are moving first, and then ensure that no other models are any further than they could be.It's normally only problem just before an assault where it's close - or in that sweet range bracket for firing.

My advice is - if you think it's going to be close - announce it to your oppo. If he/she is happy, then you are good. It really doesn't make any difference to them as you are moving ten firing and assaulting or whatever. Announcing your intentions doesn't give up your strategy at this point.

B) One thing to add - is ask your oppo. HOW they measure first. Is it front edge to front edge? Middle to Middle? Sometimes this is different for each person, and clarifying it can save an argument later.

-- Dice Rolling

A) Could not agree more on the "rolling across the whole table" thing. However, some people like to shake it like Vegas, blow on it, don't like
"dropping" etc. Again - ask prior, and if needs be - have a game lid available for those Craps players with Ork armies.

B) We have a big problem with the scatter dice. If possible, roll it near to the target. But lemme tell you - that dice has a mind of it's own. It'll flatten more mini's than any amount of Gauss fire. If in doubt - get a 3rd person to ref it.

-- Proxies/Unpainted

I appreciate more than most people on how expensive things are, and how crap you can paint things if you aren't careful..

I don't mind proxies at all, or unpainted. But I do hate people that use products from outside the game (unless it's desperation). So you turn up with Green army men - I'm gonna crap on the table and call it a LandRaider.

-- If you are late to a game, it is ok if you bring snacks

Too bloody right!! If I'm coming from work - I'm bringing food!

More to follow... off to the shops!

The convention I've seen used around here regarding cocked dice:
Put another die on top of the die in question, if it falls off, it's cocked.

I especially agree about the scatter die. Roll it as close as possible to the target. I've seen too many yahoos roll it clear on the other side of the table, and then try to claim some funky angle that ain't the one they rolled.

As far as proxies, I'm kind of picky. A few models, or maybe a squad, but not the whole damned army. I have a standard where I don't play models that aren't at least painted to a basic level, like the tournament three color rule, or at the very least, primed and base coated.

We do the proxy thing around here a lot simply to try out new armies BEFORE we go and spend $700+ on the models. I do agree with Chunky though, no green army men, the models still need to be GW models.

The worst thing I think I have ever proxied (and I think any of my friends will agree about this) was a Monolith that I totally forgot to bring to the game, and was basically too drunk to go back for.

However - we discovered that 4 Bud Light cans gaffer taped together with another one gaffer taped on top - makes for a highly realistic "footprint" of a Monolith.

It was the best game I ever had with one frankly... and now I own two of the things.

We did had to gaffer tape a portal entrance as well though, or it might have got REALLY confusing.

Chunky_Baby wrote:However - we discovered that 4 Bud Light cans gaffer taped together with another one gaffer taped on top - makes for a highly realistic "footprint" of a Monolith.

It was the best game I ever had with one frankly... and now I own two of the things.

does that mean you now own two towers of bud light cans or two monoliths

Two Monoliths and a Pylon..

And about a mountain of gaffer taped cans

Heh, I just brought back 12 cases of empty beer bottles to the store for the refund and the girl behind the counter nearly blew a gasket when she saw them all

Wraithlord wrote: the models still need to be GW models.

I have a issue with the "must be GW", it's toysoldiers it's a game, half the fun is scratchbuilding for me at least;)also there are lots of nice minis from other companies,(A LOOOOT of crap too but nobody buys that do they?)

Scratchbuilt vehicles are cool, I was mainly referring to the infantry models. If you really want to sculpt a full 2000pt army, feel free, but otherwise, I would much rather see actual Marines or Battle Sisters on the table than plastic green army men

Col_Stone wrote:

Wraithlord wrote: the models still need to be GW models.

I have a issue with the "must be GW", it's toysoldiers it's a game, half the fun is scratchbuilding for me at least;)also there are lots of nice minis from other companies,(A LOOOOT of crap too but nobody buys that do they?)

Me too. I agree that if you are playing 40k, then the Majority of your models should be GW. But I love a good conversion and many other models offer great new ideas. Having a figure from another game system as a commander of whatever is great as long as the remainder of the unit is still the GW standard stuff.

Wraithlord wrote:Scratchbuilt vehicles are cool, I was mainly referring to the infantry models. If you really want to sculpt a full 2000pt army, feel free, but otherwise, I would much rather see actual Marines or Battle Sisters on the table than plastic green army men

Agreed here, but a good figure from another game system as your inquisitor/inquisitor lord with the other stuff on the table GW would be fine with me.

Me too.

I think that there is an "official" rule that if scratch built, a model if possible must contain 70% GW parts.

Hence how I was able to pass off (and still do) Necron Immortals using the Space Crusade "Android" painted as Immortals.

I think they look ok - and GW had to accept that they were 100% as they built that game